Loss of a Child: New Apologetics Responds

New Apologetics We say the following with certainty, and we can offer further clarification and justification for any of these points. Please feel free to ask any question on this topic at all. It is not likely that you will have heard any of this elsewhere, though it is the teaching of the Catholic Church:

1) It is *not* God’s will that you lost your child. Though well-intentioned, this assertion is one of the most destructive ideas ever conceived by human beings.
2) God is infinitely offended by every instance of innocent suffering and death. The following article is the beginning of the explanation for how this total opposition is possible if the world still goes on the way it does under the watch of an omnipotent God: https://newapologetics.com/the-theodicy-of-divine-chastity
3) Before we sedate ourselves with religious denials of just how terrible such tragedies are, we are in touch (in some dim way) with the reality of the evil. This first impression and the indignation about the unfairness of it all is the correct and Godly one.
4) God is on our side in this indignation. We are tempted to think that God has a “plan” that somehow sees death as okay. Nothing could be further from the truth.
5) The whole purpose of the coming of Christ is to destroy that very injustice which offends you (and God) about the suffering and death of your child. There is much to be said about this, and we will say as much or as little as you like. In brief, he has turned the injustice of suffering and death against itself by making our suffering into his suffering for the redemption of the world. 
6) The “acceptance” we are to have of our sufferings is not an acceptance of suffering as such, but a supernaturally infused confidence that God has guaranteed perfect justice, and that he cannot be thwarted. We know that because he has turned evil against itself through the redemption that all things will work together for good. This is the polar opposite of saying that suffering and death is God’s will. Because God is perfectly opposed to suffering and death, he has found a way to destroy the power of these evils by making them into the suffering and death of Jesus.
7) Your child has the same glory as God the Son and is one with him in saving the world.

November 23, 2012 at 12:35am · Like · 17

Anne Sanson Thank-you, New Apologetics, for your response to my question. I beleive that she is one with God the son, and that she is interceding, as Christ commands, in the lives of her family and friends. I will address some other points with you a little later. Again, sincere Thanks. God Bless.

November 24, 2012 at 9:48am · Like · 2

Pamela Cundiff Wagers Anne, this breaks my heart because we are sisters in Christ and I know your pain and questions.

This may be long but let me share my heart with you. When Robert was first diagnosed 7 yrs ago with cancer I was so upset. Being a nurse I knew the road was going to be difficult. I had been praying for so long and had insisted other prayer warriors for him because Robert had become so harden in his heart towards God. He had said he was an atheists and was vey bitter. With the help of my prayer warriors I prayed for God to wake him up. BAM! A while later Robert received his diagnosis of cancer. I felt so guilty thinking had my prayers caused this? Oh my, what had I done? Tears stayed on my face and soaked my pillow everyday. Then I dug into God’s word looking for answers. I talked to my Sunday school class and so many Sunday’s our Preacher would have a message that seemed directed at me. I realized nothing was in my power to do anything. I don’t know what God’s plan was. I re-read the book of Job and God showed me so much through this. Job lost everything, was tortured by Satan but never blamed God. He kept his eyes on him. Robert stayed bitter towards God until a few years ago. He called me one day crying and said Mom I know I have been wrong and I need to get right with God and be saved. We had been through so much on this journey. I had gone with him to Nashville for his first bone marrow transplant and so much had happened. Robert pushed all my buttons in Nashville and gave me a hard time because I had found a church there and attended regularly. Now he said he saw what a Christian really was and he needed to get right. Believe me Ann I had raised him in church but that didn’t save him. Now on our journey he was saved. Glory and praise to God

I kept thinking now that God had turned him around he would get well. That didn’t happen. He continued to make a decline in his health. We returned for his last chance a second bone marrow transplant last year but it still didn’t work. As you know I lost him the end of May. As parents we aren’t suppose to bury our children. That is not the way things are suppose to go! Our children are suppose go through the grieving and bury us when we are old. 

Is it God’s will? We don’t know. I don’t believe he wants anyone to have pain and suffering. When He created Adam and Eve there was no death or sickness at that time. Sin brought in the pain and suffering we go through. God does punish us taking our children. Sometimes bad things happen in our lives as a result of our own sins. Example an alcoholic or drug addict cause their own problems. Criminals suffer as a result from their sins. People can be filled with Satan I stead of the Holy Spirit. Gods word tells us our days are numbered like the hairs on our head. We don’t know the day any of us were born what day we will leave. On a tombstone it gives our birth and death. The dash is the very short time we spend on this earth. Our whole purpose of being born is to serve God and give him praise. Our dash and the life we shared with others is what counts. I know where my son is as well as your daughter. They are rejoicing in God full love and waiting for us. What a day of celebration that will be when we are joined with them again and all of our loved ones who knew Jesus as their Savior.

Is it Gods will for little children to be so sick and go through treatments at St Jude’s. No! It is Gods will for us to draw on him for strength and see what he wants us to,learn through our experience. You may meet someone someday that God needs you to help. Your daughters death may have made an I,pact on people we don’t know. There is so much we don’t see in the big picture. Our promise is he will never leave us or forsake us. He is only a prayer away.

There isn’t a day I don’t miss my son. With the holidays I really have been missing him. I lift my tears and asked God for comfort and his Holy Spirits helps me through the day. We can not try to understand the “why’s”? It is through faith we go on. Anne I send my love to you and hope you have peace to know this has nothing to do with your sin! God loves you, all your family and he loves the daughter that is now with him. I think of Robert as my gift from him for 42 years. I thank God for that gift even though it seemed short. Love you …if you want me to send you some scriptures that I have found to be so comforting I will be glad to. Each day is a new day and he will carry you when don’t think you can go on.

November 24, 2012 at 11:21am · Like · 6

Pamela Cundiff Wagers Sorry Anne I have a big mistake in my post and I couldn’t correct it! In the third paragraph I meant to say, GOD Does Not punish us and take our children……..I left the NOT out. Love you

November 24, 2012 at 11:33am · Like · 3

Lynn Ray Anne you know I have struggled with the murder of Courtney and why God could not have stopped what was happening. I have finally come to peace with the fact that God was with her and thru HIS mercy took her to himself. 
HE alone will deal with the murderer and I may not see justice in this lifetime but I can rest in the fact that JUSTICE will be done.
Courtney is with Sara and we will see them again
Love you

November 24, 2012 at 2:59pm · Like · 11

Off Radar These posts have been great to me to read, as I lost my baby son Elijah some time ago. He never had the chance to take a breath on this earth, as he died in my womb. At that time I was questioning God as well, but there was a moment where I heard him say “I lost a child too”. Even though we / I know that Jesus returned to our Father in Heaven, still God had to deal with the pain of watching his child go through what he did here on earth. Even though my heart still aches, I take comfort in everything said above, along with the fact that he truly knows what it feels like, and he is the keeper of justice, and I don’t have to worry about where my baby is. He was born to him, perfect.

November 24, 2012 at 6:15pm · Like · 9

Beatriz Payne Very true the blessed mother went through what happened to her son to show how much God love us.

November 25, 2012 at 10:58am · Like · 5

New Apologetics Anne Sanson We have had to delete many hateful and pastorally unhinged comments from Christians in response to your post. We apologize for not being able to delete them more quickly, but we do not yet have 24/7 moderators and the medium of Facebook does not allow for the hiding of comments until they are approved. We’re sure that you have heard all of these awful religious positions before, but we’d like to do our part to minimize that here.

November 26, 2012 at 4:04pm · Like · 1

New Apologetics Warning: Anyone who attempts to answer Anne’s question will be banned from this site. No exceptions. Expressions of compassion and solidarity are permitted. While we are interested in open and rational exchange of ideas, this thread is quite different.

November 26, 2012 at 4:08pm · Like · 2

Anne Sanson New Apologetics…I was spared those comments as I did not see those posts. Thank you for helping me in deflecting them.

November 26, 2012 at 5:23pm · Like · 2

Anne Sanson I will be praying for all of you and your efforts here. I am praying and reflecting on your answer. I will be asking more questions on this subject. Again, Peace to you, in Christ, Anne.

November 26, 2012 at 5:25pm · Like · 6

Anne Sanson New Apologetics…please explain #3 “the first impression is the correct and Godly one….”and #6 “the acceptance we are to have of our sufferings…” Thank you.

November 27, 2012 at 8:22pm · Like

New Apologetics We will be responding shortly. We ask that no other responses be posted.

December 3, 2012 at 5:56pm · Like · 1

New Apologetics Anne Sanson Please pardon the delay. Concerning point 3, please consider the following quotes from Pope Benedict XVI:

Mark tells us that Jesus “began to be greatly distressed and troubled”. The Lord says to his disciples: “My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch” (14:33-34). 

The summons to vigilance has already been a major theme of Jesus’ Jerusalem teaching, and now it emerges directly with great urgency. And yet, while it refers specifically to Gethsemane, it also points ahead to the later history of Christianity. Across the centuries, it is the drowsiness of the disciples that opens up possibilities for the power of the Evil One. Such drowsiness deadens the soul, so that it remains undisturbed by the power of the Evil One at work in the world and by all the injustice and suffering ravaging the earth. 

In its state of numbness, the soul prefers not to see all this; it is easily persuaded that things cannot be so bad, so as to continue in the self satisfaction of its own comfortable existence. Yet this deadening of souls, this lack of vigilance regarding both God’s closeness and the looming forces of darkness, is what gives the Evil One power in the world. On beholding the drowsy disciples, so disinclined to rouse themselves, the Lord says: “My soul is very sorrowful, even to death.” This is a quotation from Psalm 43:5, and it calls to mind other verses from the Psalms. 

We may distinguish three elements in this prayer of Jesus. First there is the primordial experience of fear, quaking, in the face of the power of death, terror before the abyss of nothingness that makes him tremble to the point that, in Luke’s account, his sweat falls to the ground like drops of blood (cf. 22:44). In the equivalent passage in Saint John’s Gospel (12:27), this horror is expressed, as in the Synoptics, in terms reminiscent of Psalm 43:5, but using a word that emphasizes the dark depths of Jesus’ fear: tetáraktai – is the same verb, tarássein, that John uses to describe Jesus’ deep emotion at the tomb of Lazarus (cf. 11:33) as well as his inner turmoil at the prophecy of Judas’ betrayal in the Upper Room (cf. 13:21). 

In this way John is clearly indicating the primordial fear of created nature in the face of imminent death, and yet there is more: the particular horror felt by him who is Life itself before the abyss of the full power of destruction, evil, and enmity with God that is now unleashed upon him, that he now takes directly upon himself, or rather into himself, to the point that he is “made to be sin” (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:21). 

Because he is the Son, he sees with total clarity the whole foul flood of evil, all the power of lies and pride, all the wiles and cruelty of the evil that masks itself as life yet constantly serves to destroy, debase, and crush life. Because he is the Son, he experiences deeply all the horror, filth, and baseness that he must drink from the “chalice” prepared for him: the vast power of sin and death. All this he must take into himself, so that it can be disarmed and defeated in him.

February 16 at 6:16pm · Edited · Like · 1

New Apologetics Anne Sanson Concerning point 6, please consider the following quotes from John Paul II:

“Suffering as it were contains a special call to the virtue which man must exercise on his own part. And this is the virtue of perseverance in bearing whatever disturbs and causes harm. In doing this, the individual unleashes hope, which maintains in him the conviction that suffering will not get the better of him, that it will not deprive him of his dignity as a human being, a dignity linked to awareness of the meaning of life.”

“When one says that Christ by his mission strikes at evil at its very roots, we have in mind not only evil and definitive, eschatological suffering (so that man “should not perish, but have eternal life”), but also — at least indirectly toil and suffering in their temporal and historical dimension. For evil remains bound to sin and death. And even if we must use great caution in judging man’s suffering as a consequence of concrete sins (this is shown precisely by the example of the just man Job), nevertheless suffering cannot be divorced from the sin of the beginnings, from what Saint John calls “the sin of the world,” from the sinful background of the personal actions and social processes in human history. Though it is not licit to apply here the narrow criterion of direct dependence (as Job’s three friends did), it is equally true that one cannot reject the criterion that, at the basis of human suffering, there is a complex involvement with sin.”

“Behold, He, though innocent, takes upon himself the sufferings of all people, because he takes upon himself the sins of all. “The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all”: all human sin in its breadth and depth becomes the true cause of the Redeemer’s suffering. If the suffering “is measured” by the evil suffered, then the words of the Prophet enable us to understand the extent of this evil and suffering with which Christ burdened himself. It can be said that this is “substitutive” suffering; but above all it is “redemptive”.”

“Those who share in the sufferings of Christ are also called, through their own sufferings, to share in glory.”

“Take part through your suffering in this work of saving the world, a salvation achieved through my suffering! Through my Cross.”

The following from John of the Cross is also important:

“No knowledge or power can describe how this happens, unless by explaining how the Son of God attained and merited such a high state for us, the power to be children of God, as St. John says [Jn. 1:12]. Thus the Son asked of the Father in St. John’s Gospel: Father, I desire that where I am those you have given me may also be with me, that they may see the glory you have given me [Jn. 17:24], that is, that they may perform in us by participation the same work that I do by nature; that is, breathe the Holy Spirit. And he adds: I do not ask, Father, only for those present, but for those also who will believe in me through their doctrine; that all of them may be one as
you, Father, in me and I in you, that thus they be one in us. The glory which you have given me I have given them that they may be one as we are one, I in them and you in me; that they may be perfect in one; that the world may know that you have sent me and loved them as you have loved me [Jn. 17:20-23].1 The Father loves them by communicating to them the same love he communicates to the Son, though not naturally as to the Son but, as we said, through unity and transformation of love. It should not be thought that the Son desires here to ask the Father that the saints be one with him essentially and naturally as the Son is with the Father, but that they may be so through the union of love, just as the Father and the Son are one in unity of love.”

“Accordingly, souls possess the same goods by participation that the Son possesses by nature. As a result they are truly gods by participation, equals and companions of God. Wherefore St. Peter said: May grace and peace
be accomplished and perfect in you in the knowledge of God and of our Lord Jesus Christ, as all things of his divine power that pertain to life and piety are given us through the knowledge of him who called us with his own
glory and power, by whom he has given us very great and precious promises, that by these we may be made partakers of the divine nature [2 Pt. 1:2-4]. These are words from St. Peter in which he clearly indicates that the soul
will participate in God himself by performing in him, in company with him, the work of the Most Blessed Trinity because of the substantial union between the soul and God. Although this participation will be perfectly
accomplished in the next life, still in this life when the soul has reached the state of perfection, as has the soul we are here discussing, she obtains a foretaste and noticeable trace of it in the way we are describing, although as we said it is indescribable.”

December 4, 2012 at 9:26am · Like · 1

New Apologetics Anne Sanson Please continue to press these points until the answer makes as much sense as you need. Most basically:

1) God is infinitely opposed to/offended by every instance of evil, and this includes all suffering and death.
2) Because God is perfectly opposed to all suffering and death, he has transformed their meaning by assuming all human suffering and death to himself. He thereby puts purpose and meaning where before there was only destruction.

December 4, 2012 at 4:04pm · Like

New Apologetics Paul Cameron Paul, please stop answering the questions that are being directed to us. We would like to continue the discussion with you, but will not accept your current approach.

December 22, 2012 at 12:56pm · Like · 2

Anne Sanson New Apologetics, in reading your response, I find several points which exactly describe portions of my grief journey which I have not been able to understand or articulate. I believe Jesus accepted suffering, sin and death in order to wholly contradict Evil and save every soul who opens their heart to Him. For my part, in accepting the death of my daughter, I was invited to share in the cup, and called to a deeper awakening of Christ’s Love for me. In the early days of my journey, I felt Jesus in me, healing me and helping me. He is Faithful in all things. I would like to comment further, if that is OK.

December 22, 2012 at 10:03pm · Like · 1

New Apologetics Anne Sanson Please do question/comment further.

December 25, 2012 at 8:51am · Like